Metro Times - News+Views: Anatomy of a story

2/25/2009

Media

Anatomy of a story
The news about Detroit's frozen man went around the world, but some pertinent details may never catch up

Photo: Pieter Franken

Dutch photographer Pieter Franken apparently was first to record this grim scene

AUDIO
Curt Guyette discusses this article on WDET. (MP3)

SEE ALSO

More Media Stories

Letters to the Editor (11/18/2009)
Where our readers sound off, and, boy, do they ever!

Letters to the Editor (11/11/2009)
Taking on big-box developers in Royal Oak, on Jack on Kevo, and more

Censored! (11/4/2009)
The top 10 stories not brought to you by mainstream news media in 2008 and 2009

More from Curt Guyette

Making a race of it (10/21/2009)
Why this mayoral duel is worth watching

Detroit council consultations (10/14/2009)
18 candidates x 13 questions = too much for the paper alone

Courts and sparks (9/23/2009)
The powerful bridge company is tangled up in litigation

By Curt Guyette

Using spare, elegant prose, Charlie LeDuff delivered a lead that landed with all the force of a mule kick to the gut, at once breathtaking and devastating.

"This city has not always been a gentle place," wrote the star reporter for The Detroit News, "but a series of events over the past few, frigid days causes one to wonder how cold the collective heart has grown."

The story, first published Jan. 28 on the paper's website, appeared under the headline: "Frozen in indifference: Life goes on around body found in vacant warehouse."

"It starts with a phone call made by a man who said his friend found a dead body in the elevator shaft or an abandoned building," writes LeDuff, explaining how the story came to his attention.

He goes on to note that the body — eventually identified as Johnnie Redding, a homeless man who died of a cocaine overdose — was found by someone playing hockey with friends on ice in the flooded basement of a cavernous warehouse once owned by Detroit Public Schools.

As a sign of the city's indifference to the plight of its homeless, and how cold our collective heart has grown, LeDuff points out that, after the body was discovered, these young men continued playing their game of hockey.

LeDuff wasted no time taking action once he received that call. He grabbed a photographer — even though he says now that he initially had no intention of writing about the incident — and headed over to the warehouse.

He was doing what good journalists do, making sure that the guy on the other end of the phone was telling the truth.

"Before calling the police," wrote LeDuff, "this reporter went to check on the tip, skeptical of a hoax."

It wasn't. LeDuff called 911, but the cops had trouble finding the building. The next day LeDuff returned, and the body was still there. He called 911 again, and eventually the Fire Department arrived and, with LeDuff's guidance, firefighters were able to find the body entombed in three feet of ice at the bottom of an elevator shaft.

Add to the Police Department's apparent lack of urgency and the image of hockey players cavalierly continuing their game as the legs of a nearby dead man stuck out from the ice like "Popsicle sticks" this fact: Some of Johnnie Redding's fellow homeless knew for a month or more that there was a body in the basement of the building where they sought shelter. All that time, they did nothing.

No wonder the story — made all the more dramatic and poignant by LeDuff's dramatic flair and a novelist's eye for detail — was quickly picked up by international news agencies and flashed around the world, adding a macabre exclamation point to the already grim reputation of this downtrodden city.

There were, however, some facts LeDuff didn't bother to include in either his initial report or several follow-up stories, omissions that, when added up, make one wonder whether he brushed aside important details to make a tragic story even more sensational.

Getting called

As with LeDuff, my involvement with this story began with a phone call. It wasn't from some unnamed person, though. It came from Rebecca Mazzei, a friend and former MT editor, now an assistant dean at the College for Creative Studies.

She asked me what I thought of Charlie LeDuff. I told her I didn't know him personally, but in terms of sheer writing ability that he's pretty damn good, a fawning profile of billionaire Matty Moroun notwithstanding.

She then asked: "Did you read the story he wrote about the frozen body found in the basement of that warehouse?"

"Sure. What about it?"

She told me about being out to dinner with a group of friends. The discussion turned to LeDuff's story. Like her, they were troubled by his depiction of Detroit.

That's when one of her dinner companions confessed a secret.

"I know the person who found the body," Mazzei said. "After the story came out, he wrote LeDuff a long e-mail, saying how he disagreed with how some things were portrayed. LeDuff wrote him back and said that he'd like for the two of them to get together. But, since then, he's learned some more things about the story, and he's not sure that he can trust LeDuff."

"He thinks the whole thing was more complicated than Charlie made it seem."

The guy turned out to be Scott Hocking, a local artist and photographer who, among other things, sculpted a pyramid built of scrap inside an abandoned auto plant.

Rebecca said that Scott was in the building photographing the hockey game being played in the bowels of the abandoned building on the city's west side near the vacant Michigan Central train station. After he found the body, he pointed it out to one of the hockey players. The rumor is that the hockey player had some connection to LeDuff, and that he, too, was bothered by the story.

I got Hocking's e-mail address and sent a message saying I was interested in looking into the story. Then we talked. He gave me his version of events. He said he didn't know the name of the hockey player, but might have had a way of contacting him.

"It's important," I said. "If he really does know LeDuff, then it calls into question LeDuff's claim that he didn't call 911 right away because he was skeptical the whole thing might be a hoax."

I also asked him to send me a copy of the e-mail he sent to LeDuff.

In the meantime, I started trying to see if there was some other way to track down the hockey player.

Reaching out

The first call I make is to a friend, Bruce Giffin. A longtime photographer for this paper, we've known each other for nearly 15 years. In his story about finding Johnnie Redding's corpse, LeDuff describes the hockey player who discovered the body as an "urban explorer who gets thrills rummaging through and photographing the ruins of Detroit." Giffin has been going into abandoned buildings to take pictures for 20 years. In fact, we were both in the building where the body was found — the Roosevelt Warehouse, a former depository for Detroit Public Schools textbooks and supplies, now owned by Matty Moroun — several years ago.

Our story began with the lines: "The old Roosevelt Warehouse on the edge of Corktown has the aura of a graveyard. It's as if this is the place where knowledge went to die."

We also made note of the fact that people were living there: "Although abandoned, the Roosevelt is not unoccupied. One of the residents, a homeless vet, took us on a tour. Visitors are fairly frequent, he says. Kids coming in from the suburbs looking for adventure crawl through a hole in the fence that is supposed to block access."

Until recently an instructor teaching an advanced photography class at a local community college, Giffin leads aspiring photographers on tours of Detroit's abandoned buildings.

I ask him about LeDuff's description of urban explorers who get their kicks sightseeing the ruins of Detroit.

There is something of an adventure to it, he admits. But there's more to it than that.

"I think I must be an optimist if I can find beauty in broken-down buildings," he explains. "I take these kids from the suburbs into them, and they see this beautiful architecture, and they love it. And they are sad to see it going away."

He says he's heard about the hockey players at the warehouse but doesn't know any. He might know someone who knows them, though, and he'll try to put me in touch.

"But I do know someone who took a picture of the body," he says.

He can't see my jaw dropping.

On the day before the hockey player supposedly found the body, Giffin was taking a Dutch photojournalist, Pieter Franken, on a tour to the city's ruins. One of the places they went to was the Roosevelt Warehouse

It turns out that, a day later, Franken, having found Hocking through stories on the Internet, was back in the same warehouse with him. Hocking had found out about the hockey game that was taking place, and both men went to photograph it. Franken, after returning home to the Netherlands, had e-mailed Giffin a picture much like the one that appeared in The Detroit News.

After hanging up, Giffin forwards the e-mail with attached photos from the Dutch photographer.

Dutch connection

Pieter Franken calls me from the Netherlands soon after receiving my e-mail. He tells me that he and Hocking were inside the warehouse for hours on Sunday, Jan. 25, shooting the hockey game. The guys were partying as well as playing, with a good time being had by all. Beers were being downed. The smell of reefer wafted in the air.

At one point late in the afternoon, Hocking wandered off.

"Then he came back over and says to me, "I just found something you need to see,'" recalls Franken.

The body was at least 200 feet, maybe 300 feet, from where the game was being played. The elevator door, which came down from the top, was lowered about three feet. Franken began taking photographs. Hocking retrieved one of the hockey players who had separated from the group, looking for a puck.

"The kid was clearly shaken by the sight," says Franken. "From what I could see, he didn't tell the others about it."

Asked why he didn't call the police, Franken says that he was in the country on a tourist visa, and didn't want to have to explain to the cops why he was trespassing in an abandoned warehouse.

Three days later, Franken was back in the Netherlands, reading LeDuff's article on the Internet.

"He made it come out like these guys were almost playing around the body," Franken says. "That absolutely was not the case. The one we showed the body to was clearly shaken up. He wasn't joking around. I certainly would not have stated that those kids were being cold-hearted."

At the conclusion of the interview, I ask him if he'll sell us any of the photos. He agrees to our standard rate: $70.

Scott's message

Saying the delay was due to the fact he was still considering meeting with the reporter — Hocking finally forwards his e-mail me.

"It's clear from your article that you see this situation from a strong unwavering viewpoint," wrote Hocking, who attached his name to the message, revealing himself to be involved in the incident, taking the chance that he would be exposed and condemned for not notifying authorities.

Hocking wanted LeDuff to understand that he's a compassionate guy dealing with a moral dilemma.

"Yes, this was a dead human being," he wrote. "However, he had been there for months, knowing that the basement had frozen by November. And, as you stated, this building houses many homeless men through the winter. … I wondered if the police would essentially kick all of them out."

Which, as it turns out, is exactly what happened after LeDuff wrote his story.

"Maybe one of them would freeze to death?" Hocking wrote.

"Perhaps I did not make the right choice in leaving it up to the hockey players," he admits. (Although he uses the plural when referring to the hockey players in his e-mail to LeDuff, Hocking says he believes only one knew about the body.)

But he explains further that fear of being forced out was "clearly the reason none of the homeless men told the police, or told anyone for that matter. They didn't want to lose their shelter from this brutal winter. I can imagine that most people would first think of the deceased man — who was he, does he have a family, have they been searching for him, etc. Well, I did think those same things, but I also thought of the guys still alive back there — I have a feeling that they to have names and families too. …

"I think the main problem I have with your article is that you seem to make everybody out as bad guys," Hocking continues. "You write that the hockey players continued playing, as if they were completely unaffected by the corpse. I am sure it was more complicated than that. You indicate they were playing hockey ‘last week,' when, in reality, it was Sunday afternoon, and less than 48 hrs passed when one of them called the News. This is was not the behavior of unfeeling monsters. …

"You also make the cops seem incompetent, not responding quick enough and unable to find the body. Yet, you yourself ‘explored' the building before calling it in. Therefore you must be aware that it is not easy to find a way into the basement, let alone the body. …"

"I agree with you more than you know," LeDuff wrote back in an e-mail Hocking shared with me. "I would like to talk — as men — if you would."

But Hocking never took LeDuff up on his offer. As time went on, he told me, he became angrier over LeDuff's portrayal of events, and the way "he made it look like he was the only one willing to do the right thing, riding in on his white horse to save the day."

Adding to Hocking's concerns were 911 recordings the Free Press had obtained, and stories in the paper calling into question LeDuff's implication the police had been either flat-out incompetent or indifferent.

Giving a minute-by-minute account of events based on Police Department records, Free Press reporters Ben Schmitt and Zachary Gorchow, on Friday, Jan. 30, reported something LeDuff failed to: That, contrary to what LeDuff had signaled, police indeed found their way to the warehouse within about a half hour of taking LeDuff's initial call.

"It doesn't appear there was any lack of police response or delay in their response in arriving at the location," department spokesman James Tate told the paper. "It's a large warehouse that was full of debris, which makes it very difficult — especially when it's dark — to locate a body in ice," Tate added.

It also didn't help that LeDuff wasn't there to show them exactly where the body was. According to a follow-up story by Oneita Jackson of the Free Press, LeDuff went back to his office before notifying authorities.

The body was discovered the next day, Wednesday, Jan. 28, when LeDuff showed up to guide firefighters to the exact location.

LeDuff refused to comment on his account of events when contacted by Free Press reporters, according to the paper's story.

In addition talking with police, the Free Press also filed a Freedom of Information Act request to obtain the 911 tapes. Copies of the recordings were posted on the paper's website.

Although LeDuff waited to return to his office to make his call to police on that Tuesday, he apparently stuck around the warehouse long enough to talk with some of the other homeless men living in the building. He tells the dispatcher, "Know what's funny about it — there's a bunch of homeless guys there who knew about it but didn't report it."

In his initial article he reports that one of the men says he didn't have the quarter needed to make a pay phone call to the police, who the man said "probably wouldn't show up anyway."

The 911 tape records LeDuff saying the body looks like a Popsicle.

Following leads

One contact leads to another, as I keep trying to get in touch with the hockey player. Along the way, I pick up pieces of information from people who don't want their names used. Several times I hear that the hockey player knows LeDuff. Someone else tells me a local photographer named Frank Parker might be the person who served as the intermediary who called to tell LeDuff about the body.

I do an Internet search and find Parker's bio on a Web page he created. He notes that he'd once served in the military, and that he'd worked as a database programmer for Ford Motor before graduating from art school. Then I find a long interview with LeDuff, also posted on the Web, in which LeDuff describes having three younger brothers, one of whom lives in the Detroit area, was in the military, worked at Ford, attended art school and is trying to make it as a photographer.

I'm sure Parker and LeDuff consider themselves brothers, and that, considering the confidence I have in my sources, it was Parker who made that initial call to LeDuff.

Is that significant?

Consider for moment that, instead of reading the line "It starts with a phone call made by a man who said his friend found a body…" and then change just a few words.

"It starts with a phone call from my brother …"

Now ask yourself this: If your sibling called to tell you that a distraught close friend had come to him with a story about finding a body in an abandoned warehouse and wasn't sure what to do, would you be worried about a hoax?

Contact made

Bruce Giffin's connection pays off. He doesn't want to be named, but he can get me in touch with the hockey player.

The player is a 25-year-old aspiring photographer who also doesn't want his name used. He talks about being shown the body by Hocking, and being unnerved. He tells me that he didn't tell his fellow players about the experience because it was so traumatic, and he didn't want to lay the burden on them.

He did return to the game, though, but says it was only because he didn't want to let on something was wrong. But it wasn't like he went on blithely playing.

"I was kind of in shock," he says.

Asked why he didn't call the police immediately, he says that he's already on probation for trespassing, and doesn't want to get into more trouble. He also says that several years ago friends of his notified police about a body in an abandoned building, and were detained and initially treated as suspects.

Haunting images kept him from sleeping much that night. The next day he turned to a trusted friend for advice. "You have to do the right thing," he says that friend advised. "You have to do the human thing."

I press him several times to reveal the friend's name, but he won't. Asked if it's Frank Parker, he will only say he won't talk about that.

Finally, the player says his friend suggested that a call be placed to LeDuff.

The next day he agreed to meet LeDuff at the warehouse to show him exactly where the body was. And he told LeDuff the story about being shown the body, and going back to finish the game without telling his friends.

He doesn't really criticize LeDuff or the story, but he regrets that it came across that his pals kept on playing, as if they knew the body was there but didn't care: "I guess something got lost in the translation," he says.

I send an e-mail, saying my guess is that he won't give me more details about whom he approached because the friendship is old, and very close, and he doesn't want to jeopardize it. "Thanks for understanding' is his reply.

The only reason he's talking to me, he says, is that he doesn't want people to think his friends are really so cold-hearted that they would go only cavalierly playing hockey while the legs of a frozen man stuck out from the ice a few feet away.

"I just keep coming back to that one line in the story, over and over again," he says. "It's that one line."

"‘They, in fact, continued their hockey game.'"

On the other hand, he's truly relieved that the body is no longer entombed at the bottom of an elevator shaft.

"When I close my eyes at night and try to go to sleep, I don't see those legs sticking out of the ice anymore," he says.

Last call

There's a short list of questions I have for LeDuff when I give him a call Monday.

Before punching in his number, I re-read the stories he's written about the discovery of Johnnie Redding's body, the autopsy that determined the cause of death, his family's reaction to the news, and the funeral that took place.

As hard as it was, news of the death had to be better than not knowing what had come of him. And LeDuff used discovery of the body as a springboard to bring much-needed attention to the miserable plight of Detroit's 19,000 or more homeless people. LeDuff included this paragraph as part of his initial story:

"The human problem is so bad, and the beds so few, that some shelters in the city provide only a chair. The chair is yours as long as you sit in it. Once you leave, the chair is reassigned.

"Thousands of down-on-their-luck adults do nothing more with their day than clutch onto a chair. This passes for normal in some quarters of this city."

LeDuff says he's expecting my call. The questions begin.

Why didn't you stick around to lead police where the body was on that first day you were shown it?

He talks about the delay in their arrival, and the fact that the Detroit News offices are only a few minutes away. The cops know how to get a hold of him.

"I'm not going to hang around all night waiting for them to take the body out. … What do you want me to do, wait around for somebody to show up?"

He tells me, too, that when he initially went out there, he wasn't intending to do a story — even though he brought a photographer along. He says that it wasn't until the next day, after seeing the delay in finding the body, that he determined to write about the incident.

He says, too, that the body "wasn't that difficult to find."

The next question involves a point raised by Hocking in his e-mail. He takes issue with LeDuff saying the body was found "last week," when really it was less than 48 hours between the time the body was shown to the hockey player and LeDuff being shown where the body is. Hocking contends it was part of an attempt by LeDuff to portray things in the worst possible light.

"I don't know what Hocking's problem is. He says in this e-mail that he was taking a Dutch photographer on a fucking tour. Hocking did nothing. He doesn't make a call, and he wasn't going to make a call, and I'm a beast? You step over a guy and do nothing about it, and then you have a problem with me? I don't understand why. But I don't want to get in a pissing match."

Besides, the way LeDuff describes it, he's the one in all this who has a totally clear conscience.

"In the end, the person who called the police was me. And the guy's extracted."

He then says that he understands why some guys might be scared to go to the cops, and why the other homeless guys would choose to remain silent about a body in the ice. And he talks about how desperate the homeless problem is in this city.

And what about the impression left that the hockey players seemingly knew about the body being there and kept on playing?

"All I know is three guys involved in the hockey game knew."

I point out that two of those three were photographers Scott Hocking and Pieter Franken, and that, as best I can tell, only one hockey player knew.

"Do what the fuck you want to do," says LeDuff in response.

Then he points out that he wasn't even called by the hockey player.

No, I say. The hockey player contacted Frank Parker, and Frank Parker called you.

"Look here, man, what the fuck to you want?" asks LeDuff.

I say, this is what I want to know: Why do you think it might be a hoax if the call is coming from your brother, who is relaying information provided by one of his good friends?

"Look here man, my brother's the one who said you have to do the right thing. You have to take care of it."

"Write what you want to," he says, "but those are the facts."

Curt Guyette is Metro Times news editor. Send comments to cguyette@metrotimes.com.

Comments

On 2/25/2009 8:12:32 AM, Thrasher said:

This is yet another example of the depraved tabloid voyageur journalism that has been a staple of the Metro Times for way to long . Apparently Curt and his comrades want to mine the same sleazy titilting soil that the Detroit News culitvated with not only a repeat visit of the inhumane photo shot of the deceased but now we get the breathtaking back story about LeDuff' journalistic ethica and a lot of frozen bullshit.. Stupid me I thought Curt was going to add some value to the life of Johnnie and his family...Instead I got the usual Metro Times version of journalism..I wonder if Curt wants a real job now taking LeDuff's stop.....

On 2/25/2009 10:11:57 AM, Thrasher said:

There may have been a number of crimes surrounding this saga including not only the trespassers but the omissions by LeDuff and others. Curt should turn his notes and findings over to the DA. I wonder if I should hold my breath waiting for Curt to step up here.... It is als revealing how media types try to make themselves bigger than the story this same theme was resent in the KK saga where the reporters involved became local heroes and enjoyed soaking up the glamor and the pats on the back.... Truth just below the scripted words and shallow fiction of the body of work of most journalists in tis region lurks a bunch of slugs..yeah just some garden variety slugs...

On 2/25/2009 12:04:01 PM, jkaufman said:

It's about time someone with some journalistic integrity set the record straight on this story. Even after having the glaring errors in his original story pointed out to him, Charlie Leduff barreled on full speed ahead with his lurid tabloid treatment rather than correct the false impressions that he had spread. His melodramatic writing aside, it's clear that he only cared about himself through this whole episode.

On 2/25/2009 1:07:13 PM, Thrasher said:

The question now is "WHO KILLED JOHNNIE?????"

On 2/25/2009 2:46:45 PM, dingbats7 said:

i was wondering why leduff didn't wait for the cops to show up, i was reading this article of what was happening on the free press. everyone blogging on there was annoyed with the detroit cops, but i was thinking, why didn't leduff wait for the cops to show up. one good thing happened for me though. i learned through this article what a scumbag matty moroun is. as far as i'm concerned he owes the city plenty. this story just brought up his name because he likes to stay under the radar of publicity. too bad it took poor johnnie to make that happen.

On 2/25/2009 2:49:39 PM, bubb said:

hmm, let's see: an ambitious reporter, the dead body of a homeless man, an "anonymous" tip that leads to said body which then leads to a "news" story tweaked with enough sensationalism to bring international exposure. . .the reporter then milks the story into follow-ups that intend to highlight the plight of the city's homeless, all filled with "perfect" quotes from untraceable sources. . . it's almost like Charlie LeDuff didn't see the last season of The Wire. Then again, maybe he did: the series bleakly concludes with the lying, quote-fabricating young reporter winning a Pulitzer for his misdeeds. Unfortunately for Mr. LeDuff, the police 911 tapes and the stories of nearly everyone else involved don't back up his sensationalist version of the events. Thank you, Curt Guyette, for following actual leads on the complicated truth of this story and not falling into the same melodramatic tropes and cliche that seem to be the hallmark of Leduff's journalistic style. LeDuff came to Detroit with a history of plagiarism and a close friendship with Jayson Blair. I hope he recognizes that in the future the people of Detroit will be watching his words carefully.

On 2/25/2009 3:25:06 PM, gnome said:

Curt, what a boring and hair-splitting piece of sour-grapes reporting. You accuse LeDuff of making himself the hero, then you force your reader through your heroic twists at finding out what we already knew: No one called the police except LeDuff. You site that the cops immediately went looking for a the Popsicle man, but in listening to the 911 calls and in the "O" Street report we know that the cops looked on the roof. This was after they were told the body was in the bottom of an elevator shaft. Do you look for someone in the bottom of an elevator shaft by looking on the roof? Who does that? Incompetent people do. Is that what you are defending? Jeeze. Your non-story strikes a tone of professional jealousy. If it filled with nif-naws and hair splitting. Poor work, D-

On 2/25/2009 4:48:45 PM, Thrasher said:

As usual I am enjoying the comments more that the feature story..Clearly LeDuff is gloryhound and Curt is dragonslayer( in his own mind)..Despite my major reservations about the MT on this score I am placing my bets on Curt...BTW I have blogged and written extensively on this issue..c/o planeideas.blogspot.com....

On 2/26/2009 12:47:33 AM, lghoutld said:

Curt, I was so ready to read your story with an open mind. You gave me no reason. A man is dead, for Christ's sake! Who really cares that you know a guy who knew a guy who knows another guy who takes pictures and leads tours in abandoned buildings that lead you to an unnamed source. While I would like to believe that the officers' alleged lack of action that night (a 15-minute search of the wrong building in the dark) was not intended to show disrespect to the plight of homelessness, it's easy to see why any normal thinking person would ponder the possibility in a city in the midst of so much corruption. Without knowing details and, perhaps, watching way too many crime shows, I am left wondering why police didn't secure a few high-powered flash lights and make a call to LeDuff to get concise directions to the elevator shaft? Your lack of reporting merely echoed what you were criticizing about LeDuff's piece. Having received a tip about the body, should LeDuff's brother have behaved like the others you quoted by not saying a word? And, do you really think it would have been relevant for LeDuff to finger him as the tipster's tipster? Parker was merely relaying a message because his cowardly "friend'' said he already had one strike against him for trespassing. Or was it that the friend didn't want his fellow hockey players to lose their secret hockey hideout? Waa! Waa! He couldn’t sleep that night? Couldn’t possibly compare to the sleepless nights of Redding’s loved ones. Chances are good that Johnnie Redding would still be in that elevator shaft had LeDuff not pushed police to take his 911 calls seriously. Duff certainly could use a bar of soap in his mouth for dropping so many “F’’ bombs in defense of his own reporting, but the reality is that he highlighted several critical problems that Detroit needs to address – homelessness, drug abuse, crime and, perhaps, too few police officers to handle it all. Unfortunately, as the economy continues to nose-dive, we may find our own loved ones, even ourselves in any one of the above situations. Your self-serving diatribe served no purpose other than to give me something to do during a state of insomnia.

On 2/26/2009 9:27:03 AM, Thrasher said:

Again after we have the drama of dueling reporters engaging in ego driven tabloid coverage of this tragic saga the question remains "WHO KILLED JOHNNIE??? Again one hopes Queen Worthy will get over her fetish with the former mayor and open up an investigation into the death of Johnnie Redding. There appears to be a number of propects/suspects from urban explorers to hockey players. I hope she has ice skating skills...

On 2/26/2009 12:39:29 PM, PSewick said:

I hope Thrasher posts another comment.

On 2/26/2009 1:34:53 PM, paulhue said:

The dead guy wasn't "homeless", as his family has adamantly pointed out in a few subsequent news accounts. He was a drug addict who spent his days creating trouble for other people, such as the platoon of workers who had to waste their time sawing him out of the fix that he irresponsibly got himself into. People like this dead guy make Detroit less livable for descent people attempting to pay their way through life. The decent people who got assigned the task of digging him out and performing an autopsy deserved better, and had more important things to do with their lives, such as helping descent people.

On 2/26/2009 6:26:40 PM, Thrasher said:

Some talking points: . 1. A cause of death is a medical finding not a criminal finding .. The issue is who provided the drugs, who pulled the trigger, who was driving the car...who stuck the knife into the body causing the death...ect you get the drift... As in the case with the young white student at Groves HS let's find the drug dealers!!! 2. It is a crime to contaminate a crime scene as well a obstruction of justice, also conspiracy if a number of hockey players, urban explorers( I love white folk's slang) aka trespassers engaged in these potential crimes.. 3. Perhaps you should turn yourself in to the authorities for trespassing..( I could drop a dime on ya)...lol,lol,lol 4. Again I repeat WHO KILLED JOHNNIE The deal is simple at the end of the day crimes of various degrees and offenses occurred here..I am not the DA she should sort them out..MY theme is JR deserves better not only from the media, DA, but others...I am going to do my best to make something happen here.. I believe in making a difference. Do YOU???

On 2/26/2009 6:35:17 PM, Thrasher said:

I have a great idea for MT. Given the success of programs which reward folks for tips on fugitives etc... MT can sponsor a "SCAVENGER HUNT FOR THE Johnnie Redding KIllers and People of Indifference" We could show all those folks who think this region does not care about the Frozen Dead BUMSICLES of the world that they are wrong. We can help the the DA solve this crime and stop 'urban explorers/trespassers' from trashing the city . This contest can be the vehicle to can create regional bonding etc... I would help MT underwrite this contest. It can be a internet based contest with daily alerts on clues, leads, arrests, progress. This could be AWESOME...BIG..CRAZY..WICKED... Come on MT and Detroit Let's Do this!! JR last human footprints deserve a better ending than this outcome..Humanity has value!!!

On 2/26/2009 6:40:50 PM, BaldomeroG said:

This critique/protest of LeDuff is old tripe. More scorn and whining from literal-minded illiterates suspicious of how writerly reporters conjure their witchcraft. The fork-tongued assertion that concedes/gives false praise to the writer for having a "dramatic flair and a novelist's eye for detail," while suggesting the writer is fabricating or omitting details "to make a tragic story even more sensational." So LeDuff doesn't want to reveal his brother as the initial source of the story. So LeDuff wants to see the body before the police; or he feels he can't vouch for his brother's friend. So LeDuff reports that some hockey players knew of the body and kept playing. So about his city he muses "how cold the collective heart has grown." LeDuff's piece is solid, self-contained, and unforced. That he also writes with style and polish should not condemn the story or him. I don't blame you for anatomizing LeDuff's story -- although you could have saved yourself time and effort by meeting with him and talking "as men." Maybe, if you're at all fair/understanding/sympathetic, you would have agreed with him more than you know.

On 2/26/2009 9:02:55 PM, Thrasher said:

Reporters have no fuckin magic or withcraft skills they are seedy stenographers conduits for whistleblowers and garden variety twits who fill thier yellow pads and little books with boring facts these paper clerks then twist and into fiction.. LeDuff is the worst of the lot he takes his crubs and shavings and add his piss oon them to give it flavor and smell. LeDuff used depravity and the remains of humanity to play the role of a narrator of fiction and sleaze after hhe distorted the ingedients.. Reporters in this town are slugs lving in bubbles and spotlights they have created..They are not my cult heroes or worthy scribes.. No they are nothing more than marginal stengraphers with the minor english skills of spelling big words right...

On 2/27/2009 11:10:49 AM, GeoWaldman said:

Nice job, Curt! There is so much to learn and see: the "original" reporter, who he knows, what he thinks; then the examination of his work, what he saw and didn't see or understand, how his mind worked and didn't work; the responses to the MT story from readers with their own axes to grind, their own impressions; and then our own understandings of the intricate dilemmas throughout. It's all good journalism.

On 2/27/2009 10:26:01 PM, wildcleotis said:

Thrasher said, "This is yet another example of the depraved tabloid voyageur journalism that has been a staple of the Metro Times for way to long ." mmm, odd too how Metro Times uses a "New York Post" style paging app on the front page. Makes you wonder if rupert is involved? LOL..wake-up Thrasher, what are you looking for? Your perfect ideal of scared journalism, if you want that, do it yourself and don't read the Metro Times.

On 2/27/2009 10:47:34 PM, Thrasher said:

wildcleotis, Just because you want to live in and read shit that is your world not mine..I make a difference in the world shit why would I want to be like you accepting bullshit.. I live my life ..MY WAY

On 2/28/2009 8:31:19 AM, Tinkler said:

Hey, Thrasher, shut the fuck up, man! "I make a difference in the world." Yeah, right. Do you know how ridiculous and pathetic you look?

On 2/28/2009 10:02:03 AM, Thrasher said:

Tinkler, Do you know how stupid you look reacting to my posts ..lol,lol,lol .. I reeled your dumb ass in..lol,lol..I know I am good in solicting twits like you with my posts...lol,lo,lol ..Get a grip you slug go kick your dog or take a cold shower..Stop obessing over my posts..Get over me..tee hee

On 2/28/2009 10:12:30 AM, Thrasher said:

Tinkler, Fest Up..Were you one of those ubran explorers( white folks slang for trespassers) or the hockey players that did nothing for JR...If I find out I am dropping a dime on you..I will report criminals to the authorities...I will make a difference...lol,lol,lol

On 2/28/2009 10:17:03 AM, Tinkler said:

Not obsessed with your posts...but I am amused by a fool who comes on this site nearly every day to post how much it sucks, yet he apparently reads every single word in the paper every week. Based on your idiotic blustering and sputtering here and on the WDET site, among other things, you're quickly becoming known as one of the biggest idiots in the metro Detroit area. How does that feel? You're like an annoying house fly that keeps buzzing around one's head and won't go away. Nothing more, nothing less. Get a fucking life!

On 2/28/2009 1:31:41 PM, Thrasher said:

Tinkler, It makes me feel swell, golly gee wiz knowing I have fans like you in this region following my blogs, posts and commentary in the number of venues I visit and deposit my flow.. Now step back for a moment and get out of your selfish state of being and MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!! You post like so many empty chatter class people who hide and rant behind a pc and attack people like me who have passion and engaged in life altering change in this region.. Now stop being an intellectual cowarad and envious of my personhood and brand name in this region.. I am working with a group of people who share the same interest in the JR saga as I do..We are going to meet at the venue of his murder and canvass the area to find investigative evidence and materials for the DA..Now make a difference or as you post SHUT THE FUCK UP..If you have some balls my email is planeidea@msn.com or planeideas.blogspot.com

On 3/1/2009 10:12:26 AM, Stuart Filler said:

I am happy for this article's facts, clarity, indignation, and lack of cynicism, antidotal to the Ted Baxter fatuity one comes to expect of local news stories; and it says "LeDuff used discovery of the body as a springboard to bring much-needed attention to the miserable plight of Detroit's 19,000 or more homeless people"--nineteen thousand!--which I did not imagine. Eastwood's Catholic comedy "Grand Torino" is a an homage or requiem or both to an old, mythical Detroit (with the white-boy fantasy of standing off three bored black toughs), whereas the News stories sound like the usual which denunciation of ill-run Black Detroit disguised as a guilt-trip for white readers about white hockey players, journalists, etc., who don't remember Antigone. Sembene's misburial comedy "Guelwaar" is clearer because the defined parties' defined stakes are the subject not the subtext.

On 3/1/2009 10:13:20 AM, Stuart Filler said:

"white," not "which"

On 3/1/2009 5:10:43 PM, checkblogger said:

Interesting story, but the story seems to miss one big point -- did those other hockey players know? You found one (the source who told LeDuff's brother), but no other to verfiy his story that no one else knew. It shouldn't have been too hard to find another one -- as my sources say that MT's own DetroitBlogger John was there..

On 3/1/2009 9:34:22 PM, bubb said:

why has MT's own DetroitBlogger John been silent on this, here and on his blog? He's in the 2007 detroit urbex hockey league photo that was floating around the internet. If he wasn't there when Hocking and the Dutch photographer discovered the body, he at least knows the guys who were. I'd really like to hear his take on the story, as well as his take on Charlie LeDuff (John's day job is a journalist---not just for the MT).

On 3/2/2009 8:55:14 AM, Thrasher said:

The plot thickens....BTW I have yet to get that email from Tinkler!!! I will wait 24 hours....

On 3/2/2009 1:45:53 PM, Detroitblogger John said:

At the request of the Metro Times, I am responding to set the record straight. Yes I've played in those games before, but not on the day in question, so there's been nothing for me to add that wouldn't be second-hand information. The players there that day have all confirmed that none of them found out about the body until several days later, when the player who found it reported it to them once the police had been out there already. Had they known about it at the time, I guarantee there would've been dozens of photos and videos circulating, as just about everyone there had a camera.

On 3/2/2009 2:43:11 PM, Thrasher said:

I am sorry something is amiss here...People are trying to avoid being connected to this saga fro a number of reasons including shame and potential criminal liability( I have laid ot a number of potential crimes that may have been committed including the homocide of JR( readers will recall white teen in suburban school overdose on drugs and cops tracked down drug dealers)..I think urban explorers aka trepassers, hockey players and others are skating around this..I am impressed with Detroitblogger's John's doublespeak here(he really is a better non-fiction writer that the fiction he has coughed up here)....

On 3/2/2009 5:38:41 PM, checkblogger said:

Detroitblogger John: thanks for answering. Apparently my sources were bad. Sorry to put you there when you say you weren't. I'm curious to know why the fact that all the players there confirm they knew nothing about it, yet Guyette doesn't come out and say that? I'm also curious, as Bubb asks, what you think of LeDuff? You guys almost seem to practice the same type of journalism, which I enjoy reading.

On 3/3/2009 8:40:38 AM, Detroitblogger John said:

The other players confirmed it in private discussions, but for whatever reason did not want to talk for this piece, so it was impossible to say that in the article unless they directly confirmed it with the writer. They're media shy, I suppose. As for the other question, I don't publicly comment on other journalists, but I will say that we are very different in what we do.

On 3/3/2009 10:35:44 AM, Thrasher said:

'I don't publicly comment on other journalists.." Now that is some bullshit impotent ethics .. Media types are the most defensive and thin skinned folks inthe marketplace..It is insane how these slugs have no problem diggin into your trash, engaging in ambush journalism yet they have this bullshit code never to comment on each other's lack of principles and ethics...This is why the media is as worhless as it is today!!! Again I am not buying Blogger John's explantion aka double speak ..Something is not right here to many people are running for cover and dodging thier presence and knowledge surrounding the homocide of JR...

On 3/3/2009 3:33:44 PM, Thrasher said:

Making a difference for JR....YOU can do the following put pressure on criminal justice officials to investigate the homocide of JR and pursue the arrests of those involved from urban explorers aka trespassers to hockey player who did nothing and contaminated the crine scene send via email a request for inquiry; www.usdoj.gov/usao/mie Download form and email ....Let's do this for JR!!!! if the criminal justice system ca track down drug dealers in the tragic case of Birmingham teen who OD than same can be done for JR

On 3/3/2009 3:54:34 PM, Curt Guyette said:

I've been sitting back letting others have their say on this issue because I thought I'd let the story speak for itself. But checkblogger, along with falsely accusing Detroitblogger John of being involved in the now-infamous hockey game, also is wrong when he claims I neglected to point out that only one player knew about the body. I say explicitly that the only player shown the body was so shaken by it that he didn't want to lay that same sort of trauma on his pals, and so kept quiet about it. It is, in fact, an issue central to the story. As I worked on the piece, I started telling a friend of mine in Washington state about it. Before I could finish my first sentence she said, "Oh, you mean where the hockey players found a frozen body and kept skating around it." Although LeDuff never outright says all the hockey players knew about the body and could see it as they played, I think plenty of people who read his original piece came away with the impression that the guys did know and kept playing with the body in sight. That's not true at all. Correcting that misimpression was a key reason my story made it into the paper. For one thing, even though they weren't named, those hockey players do have friends and families who know what they do. Even though they weren't named, among the circle of people around them, questions would be raised about their character and the coldness of their hearts. They deserved a fair shake, even if they weren't named. I also think the people of Detroit deserved to be treated more fairly. I'm not defending the way our homeless are cared for, or saying that LeDuff didn't perform a real public service by drawing attention to the problem. But the false impressions— hockey players skating around frozen legs sticking from the ice, police failing to respond —bolstered the point that the city's collective heart has grown frigid. I don’t think this town should take that sort of sucker punch. For those who chide the story as being filled with picked nits and split hairs, if that's the opinion you come away with after reading my piece, then so be it. Nothing I say will change your mind. And, in some ways, the things I exposed were small points — a false impression here, an omission there. But it all added up to a blockbuster of a story that got worldwide exposure and made everyone involved look bad — except, of course, the crusading writer who exposed it all. I was just trying to set the record, if not completely straight, at least a little bit straighter. Finally, anyone who thinks I relish doing a story like this doesn't know me. First of all, an inevitable consequence is that I leave my self open for the kind of ad hominem criticism I've been getting from anonymous snipers— that I'm motivated by professional jealousy, etc. As Kurt Vonnegut once wrote, "So it goes." Neither do I enjoy calling out another reporter. It doesn't exactly endear me with some of my peers. And, as more than a few people responding to this story here and elsewhere have graciously pointed out, I've got my shortcomings too. But the fact is that one of the roles of the alternative press is to keep an eye on the mainstream media. It comes with the job. —Curt Guyette As I worked on the piece, I started telling a friend of mine in Washington state about it. Before I could finish my first sentence she said, "Oh, you mean where the hockey players found a frozen body and kept skating around it." Although LeDuff never outright says all the hockey players knew about the body and could see it as they played, I think plenty of people who read his original piece came away with the impression that the guys did know and kept playing with the body in sight. That's not true at all. Correcting that misimpression was a key reason my story made it into the paper. For one thing, even though they weren't named, those hockey players do have friends and families who know what they do. Even though they weren't named, among the circle of people around them, questions would be raised about their character and the coldness of their hearts. They deserved a fair shake, even if they weren't named. I also think the people of Detroit deserved to be treated more fairly. I'm not defending the way our homeless are cared for, or saying that LeDuff didn't perform a real public service by drawing attention to the problem. But the false impressions— hockey players skating around frozen legs sticking from the ice, police failing to respond —bolstered the point that the city's collective heart has grown frigid. I don’t think this town should take that sort of sucker punch. For those who chide the story as being filled with picked nits and split hairs, if that's the opinion you come away with after reading my piece, then so be it. Nothing I say will change your mind. And, in some ways, the things I exposed were small points — a false impression here, an omission there. But it all added up to a blockbuster of a story that got worldwide exposure and made everyone involved look bad — except, of course, the crusading writer who exposed it all. I was just trying to set the record, if not completely straight, at least a little bit straighter. Finally, anyone who thinks I relish doing a story like this doesn't know me. First of all, an inevitable consequence is that I leave my self open for the kind of ad hominem criticism I've been getting from anonymous snipers— that I'm motivated by professional jealousy, etc. As Kurt Vonnegut once wrote, "So it goes." Neither do I enjoy calling out another reporter. It doesn't exactly endear me with some of my peers. And, as more than a few people responding to this story here and elsewhere have graciously pointed out, I've got my shortcomings too. But the fact is that one of the roles of the alternative press is to keep an eye on the mainstream media. It comes with the job. —Curt Guyette

On 3/3/2009 6:01:47 PM, Thrasher said:

Let me get this straight Curt you sat back , laid in the weeds, postured for days and instead of a post which seeks to bring so clarity to the issue myself and others have raised about potential crimes surrounding this horrific and inhumane saga, what we get is a self absorbed self centered rant about how rightous a reporter you are...Your pitiful phony ass claim that you care about Detroit's imagine and the reputations of those poor little sad urban explorers is bullshit and leaves me with little regard for your claims of being the guardian of journalism protecting us from the big bad MSM. From my vantage point I can live with your ego driven shallow logic but I cannot nor will I accept or allow you to dismiss the inhumanity and disregard you have for the dignity of JR...No sorry Curt but You simply do not get it..You do not have a clue..The story was never about the chicken shit story telling skills of LeDuff nor the cowardly omissions of the urban explorers and hockey players.. The issue was and remains JR and how the News and the so-called alternative press exploited the dignity and humanity of human being to sale papers and stroke the ego's of 2 empty slugs who have the audacity to call themselves journalists.. BTW I have no problem calling you or your peers out.. Both you and LeDuff can Fuck off...

On 3/3/2009 9:44:35 PM, gbandit said:

OK, so who's a better reporter than Curt Guyette in this town? WHO?!

On 3/3/2009 9:47:30 PM, Thrasher said:

The issue is not who is the best from a pool of 2nd rate talents...The issue is always about the subject matter, content, the core and soul of a first rate journalist is never about the reporter..NEVER..

On 3/3/2009 11:01:00 PM, Curt Guyette said:

Thanks for the show of support gbandit. Unfortunately, the Pulitzer Prize commmittee doesn't seem to agree with you. But that's fine. I'm happy where I am, filling the roll I do. Besides, I'd hate to see the discussion swerve toward a listing of all the reporters in town others consider better than me. The results could be truly humbling. As for Thrasher's crusade to find Johnnie Redding's killers (how he's so certain there are indeed killers, I don't know, but who am I to argue with someone who has an intellect the caliber of Thrasher's?)I think that's an excellent idea. He should get started immediately, dedicating all his apparently immense free time to the cause. True, this comment board will wither with his absence, but we'll manage to struggle on without him, somehow, I'm sure. And, Master Thrasher, before you lash back saying I'm making light of Mr. Redding's death and demeaning his dignity, let me stop you now. That is not my intent at all. Honestly, if you are right, and he was killed, then those responsible should be brought to justice. It truly is a cause worthy of your undivided effort. I know someone as astute as yourself needs no advice from a hack like me, but if I were you, I'd start trying to track down some of the other homeless who used to live at the Roosevelt Warehouse. That might take some time, but you obviously have plenty of it, issuing reams of opinion gartis as you do. Think how much more rewarding solving this suspected crime will be. Please get back to us when (but hopefully not before) you have something substantive to report. Respectfully, Curt Guyette

On 3/4/2009 9:04:19 AM, Thrasher said:

Curt, Why would I even consider paying any attention to any advice you have to offer..lol,lol,lol Remember you are a 2nd rate self absored hack who is now reduced to validating himself to me in a chat forum.. You have zero credibilty in the eyes of many. Your concern about the dignity of JR has never been a part of your agenda. Your only interest in JR is not present in your body of work, in your own words "is to keep an eye on the mainstream media" you want to set the record straight about those wholesome urban explorers and those sensitive hockey players...You have never gave a Fuck about JR . You are a pitiful "I'm happy where I am.." 2nd rate forgettable hack..This fact is not in doubt. I know you will continue to envy other reporters, you will continue to have contempt for people like JR, you will continue to make excuses for cowards like the hockey players and urban explorers, you will continue to solict the validation and affirmation of yoyo's in chat forums..and tragically you will continue to convince yourself you have value.. From where I stand I am so thankful I am not a petty small minded coward like you whose moral code and personal ethics have no problem with exploiting the dignity of a human being. I am blessed knowing I could never be as shallow and empty as you are Curt. I have no reservations at all knowing I am a better man than you in any and every way..... Oh yeah..Please let your urban explorer comrades and your sweet little caring hockey players know people are coming after them..JR will have justice!!!!

On 3/4/2009 9:38:11 AM, Tinkler said:

Hey, Thrasher -- SHUT THE FUCK UP! And before you solve a "homicide" (which it looks like you're attempting to do solely by posting delusional, megalomaniacal posts on a chatboard), perhaps you should learn how to spell the word. It's amazing to me how some people can be so unaware of the ridiculous face they present to the world at large.

On 3/4/2009 10:05:58 AM, Thrasher said:

Tinkler, Coward boy who is obessed over me fixated over my every utterance..Please be my human spell checker...I love it when penis envy slugs like you disect my posts..Newsflash Tinkerbell My genius is about my content, my substance....lol,lol,lol.. It is amazing to me how some people can be so unaware of thier role in expanding the brand and the legacy of another..It is amazing to me how some people can be so concerned about the how others think of about person that has verve and presence..lol,lol,lol Tinkerbell because I am blushing over your obession and fixation over my image and body of work ..I will do this for you whenever you get the courage to step up to me in person YOU can have my authograph ....tee hee BTW I blog for the printed blog, I have the #1 TV show on BAPA, I will be doing a guest spot on American Black Journal, My commentaries are published weekly in the Eccentric newspapers, I blog often on a number of sites including WDET, Jack's site and I have a blog site as well c/oplaneideas.blogspot.com... Please keep obessing over me...lol,lol,lol

On 3/4/2009 10:09:17 AM, Thrasher said:

Tinkerbell, One other comment..if I discover you were one of those cowardly hockey players or one of those urban explorers aka trespassers..I will drop a dime on you and report you to the authorities..YES WE CAN...lol,lol,lol

On 3/4/2009 11:29:12 AM, gnome said:

Curt, Leduff is technicolor in a city of beige reportage. If you listen to the 911 tapes, you will note that when the cops were searching the Roosevelt Hotel they did call Leduff for better directions to the Roosevelt Warehouse. The cops then went to the Warehouse where they looked on the roof. Twice. If the cops were so confused, why didn't they place another return call to LeDuff? They knew his number as they had called him before. Moreover, the Police tapes reveal a massive disconnect between 911, Police Dispatch and the Cops on the street. That is the story. Not whether or not Charlie LeDuff's brother was the tipster's tipster. Neither tipster wanted his name in the paper. You, yourself would wither without those who whisper in your ear. Again, a non-story, dripping in professional jealousy, and calling into question your reputation. Sorry.

On 3/4/2009 11:46:19 AM, Casey Coston said:

"But the fact is that one of the roles of the alternative press is to keep an eye on the mainstream media. It comes with the job." so so very true. Keep on that, bloodhounds.

On 3/4/2009 2:06:39 PM, BaldomeroG said:

Mr. Guyette -- Yes, now that I've reread it, LeDuff's paragraph about the hockey players is ambiguous and, in light of your article, even suspicious. However, if your intent was to set the record straight, particularly about the knowledge or involvement of the hockey players, then you'd have to agree that you fell short of making a convincing case. Did LeDuff disregard facts that interfered with his telling of the story? I think not. But who really knows?

On 3/4/2009 3:10:47 PM, DanSyzlak said:

Ambiguous? LeDuff clearly distorts things to create a greater story than there was. The theme of the article was everyone's indifference to this corpse, and the facts were bent to conform to this theme. First he said the police couldn't bother to show up, but they actually did show up, they just didn't look in the right place. Incompetence is not the same as indifference. Then he said the hockey players kept playing their game, when it turns out that only one of them knew about it. He had to suggest all of them did to create this impression of group indifference, since one person keeping a secret doesn't carry the same dramatic weight. Then he got to do his LeDuff thing - ride in and save the day himself, inserting himself in the article as he has done throughout his career, and bending facts so his grand themes seem more valid, another weakness he's had in his career. If he told the real story, of bumbling dispatchers and clueless cops, and a single hockey player with a photographer and a foreigner, the story wouldn't have had the impact that his version did, and the world wouldn't have a false impression of Detroit that ultimately benefits only LeDuff, a benefit he gained by painting an entire city as cold and indifferent. And had the player been truly indifferent, he wouldn't have called anyone, and LeDuff wouldn't have yet another sensationalist article to his credit.

On 3/4/2009 3:29:50 PM, Thrasher said:

LeDuff is a gloryhound slug that is no newsflash he is an operative of a dying newspaper whose sales model now is driven by tabloid themes even today above the fold we have yet another story about a white teen cold case murder... Curt is operates out of the same dump LeDuff does just on a smaller budget the MT is not a guardian of anything, it is chezzy rag that profits on sex ads and depraved tabloid voyageur journalism. This region deserves better than this chicken shit media efforts we get from hacks like LeDuff, Curt and thier peers...Instead of providing us with quality journalism we get gloryhounds, story tellers, stenographers and petty egos.... JR is nothing to frauds like Curt & LeDuff, he is object, a tool, a inanimate piece of furniture in a window display used to sale papers and sex ads...

On 3/4/2009 4:01:44 PM, fooddood said:

Shouldn't a “voyageur journalist” be writing about canoes and the proper way to prepare beaver meat? Thrasher, the Pomeranian-style comments and lack of concern about your own grammar is really hurting your brand.

On 3/4/2009 5:02:33 PM, Thrasher said:

fooddood, This is a chat forum I dumbdown my brand in here because of people like you who visit the site..My brand actually increases very time I reel folks in like you to obess over form instead of sustance.. I once heard Bill Russell in an interview being attacked by a white reporter who was up in arms about Bill's broken english, grammar just bullshit trival nonsense that had nothing to do with Bill's core talking points.. Bill" said why would I want to sound like everybody esle when I speak everyone knows it is Bill Russell.... BTW fooddood check my spelling and grammar for me on this post..tee hee

On 3/4/2009 5:26:02 PM, fooddood said:

Obsession...right. Anyway, thanks for the comic relief. Your posts are almost up there with Mad TV skits.

On 3/4/2009 5:35:28 PM, Thrasher said:

fooddood, Thanks for the love and continued attention..My brand is global and universal in scope and range..We do it all from humor to satire to politics..Yes we can..lol,lol,lol BTW you can get more by visiting my blog and checking out my TV show and my next appearance on American Black Journal or my commentaries in the Eccentric and of course a number of blogs.. planeideas.blogspot.com

On 3/4/2009 6:24:02 PM, Tinkler said:

"tee hee" "lol,lol,lol" Thrasher -- You write like a schoolgirl headed to her first Sadie Hawkins Day dance.

On 3/4/2009 10:25:06 PM, Thrasher said:

Tinkerbell, You still stalking me??..Get a life man..lol,lol,lol...Look I understand my power and ability to excite and agitate folks..I got skills...lol,lol,lol..Now run along You are boring me.... Oh yeah..tee hee

On 3/5/2009 3:09:41 PM, lotta said:

I've been following this story from the beginning. Give us a break, Mr. Guyette. You truly are splitting hairs here. Sounds like you have a very real and pathetic case of professional jealousy. Bottom line about this story is that the only one who did call the police is Mr. LeDuff...more than once. Embarrassingly bad non-story...please give it a rest.

On 3/5/2009 9:58:47 PM, capn said:

Lotta, it may come across on as splitting hairs on the surface, but shady journalistic tactics need to be called out. The story was sensationalized far beyond reality, at the expense once again of the image of Detroit.

On 3/6/2009 11:28:10 AM, lotta said:

The expense of Detroit's image? I believe the only thing that matters here is that Mr. Redding was found and returned to his family. Would he still be there if it were left up to the two photographers, the hockey player and the homeless guys, who all apparently had excuses for not notifying the police? Thankfully, we'll never know.

On 3/7/2009 6:19:57 PM, tjbiv said:

Interesting. As a relative newcomer to Detroit, I've learned three somewhat valuable things from this: (a) Reporters like Curt Guyette and alternative press papers like The Metro Times continue to serve a valuable watch-dog role in the community. (b) Charles Le Duff does seem to be a bit of a glory hound. And though he seems to be considered a talented journalist, it's worth keeping in mind reading his future work. (c) Thrasher is insane.

On 3/8/2009 10:37:28 AM, Thrasher said:

tjbiv, I am not a relative newcomer to this area and I find people like you.. 1. Irrelevant 2. Ignorant 3. Insane BTW please check my spelling..oh yeah..lol,lol,lol